The Bible in Sanskrit

The Bible is available in almost all languages in the world. But, a copy of it in Sanskrit is a rarity. It is unknown to many that the Bible was translated into Sanskrit language by Christian Missionaries in by the end of 19th century CE. This speaks volumes about their dedication to the task of spreading Christianity in India. By the end of the 19th century, Sanskrit had been reduced to the status of a classical language handled only by the intelligentsia. Perhaps to propagate Christianity among the Hindu intelligentsia, the missionaries would have translated the Bible into Sanskrit, the sacred language of Hindus.

The Sanskrit version of the Old Testament was printed in four parts in 1848 and the New Testament in 1886 in Calcutta. Both these publications do not have English translations since these translations were obviously meant for Sanskrit scholars.

DOWNLOAD New Testament 1868 edition
DOWNLOAD New Testament 1922 edition

Old Testament of the Bible (in four parts)
Part 1 Part 2
Part 3 Part 4

Mathew’s Gospel Sanskrit Text with English Translation is available at sanskritweb

Comments

The Bible in Sanskrit — 42 Comments

  1. Some of you may wonder why I posted the links to the Sanskrit translation of the Bible. I am not a fan of either Christianity or the Bible. I do not believe in many of the dogmas of Christian faith such as believing in Jesus as the only son of God, eternal Hell for all unbelievers even though they lead virtuous lives, etc, etc.

    Still, I am posting these ebooks considering their usefulness for those who do research on Sanskrit, Christianity and Indian history. Please read “Hindu Critique of Christianity”, English translation of “Kristumata Chedanam” by Sri Chattampi Swamikal to discover the real face of Christianity.

    • I have always wondered whether crucifixion of Jesus connotes victory of the vicious over the virtuous. Yet Christianity likes people to believe that Jesus carried the cross to save the world. Save the world from what?

      Is there any story in Hindu mythology that the vicious ever finally prevailed?

      I also wonder whether there is any strategic similarity between Hijarat and RaNaChod?

      Thirdly, is Nireeshwara-vaad of Buddhism tenable?

      Fourthly, most people did not like my post on Facebook, when I mentioned that an 18-year old girl adopted Sanyaas and her becoming a Saadhvee became an occasion of celebration in a suburb in Vadodara!!!

      Comments welcome!!

      • Abhyankarji,

        Most of the new testament scholars believe that Jesus is a myth – that he never lived. Please read “Jesus Puzzle” by Earl Doherty at http://jesuspuzzle.humanists.net/home.htm

        Thinkers like Ram Swarup (http://voiceofdharma.org/books/) consider Christianity as more of a political ideology than a religion. Unlike Christianity, Hinduism is not a faith based religion that promises you salvation in the other world. According to Vedas, one attains Moksha through self-knowledge. Moksha is not attained in the other world, but in this world while you are alive. This concept of “जीवन्मुक्तिः – Jivanmukti” is there only in Dharmic traditions like “Hinduism, Buddhism, etc”. One cannot find this in Prophetic religions like Christianity, Islam, etc.

        The basis of Hinduism is the Vedic mantra “सर्वं खल्विदं ब्रह्म – sarvam khalvidam brahma”. Individual soul is essentially not different from the Universal soul or Iswara. This truth is declared by Vedic Rishis through the mantras “अहं ब्रह्मास्मि – Aham Brahmasmi” and “तत्वमसि – Tat Tvam Asi”.

        So, how can the evil prevail ultimately? सत्यमेव जयति नानृतम् – Satyameva Jayati Nanritam.

  2. its not time to criticize bible or Christianity its time to learn something from them.they have translated bible in all the languages and spread it all over the world.my question is what hindu is doing our so called educated people even dont know the few slokas of geeta and we fill proud for being hindu. is it positive sign for hinduism.most of people dont know our religious text,who is responsible for that? think upon it.

    • Religion has two aspects – social and individual.

      Individual aspect has to promote spiritualism and attainment of the highest order. This has been best stated by Bharateeya-ji, when saying that concept of Moksha जीवन्मुक्तिः is endorsed only in philosophies as of Hinduism, Buddhism and not by prophetic thoughts promoted by Christianity or Islam.

      So, when you raise the question, “What have Hindu intelligentsia done?” you have to first of all understand that spiritual attainment is individualistic and is never a “mass”-phenomenon. And progressing in spiritual attainment does not depend upon educational qualifications. You do not have to know Geetaa or any scripture for that matter to progress in spiritual attainment.

      The social aspect of religion again does not need knowledge of scriptures. What is good social conduct is good social conduct. Why would one need a scripture to tell that?

      So, one does not need scriptures to make “religious” progress, whether individually or socially. Just by global demography, Christianity is possibly #1 and Islam is #2. But how many “seers” do we find in all that huge demographic spread?

      I shall be game for gaining knowledge from wheresoever available, whether from Bible or from Quran or from Geetaa or from whichever other scripture. I shall be clear all the time that studying Bible or Quran does not make me a Christian or Muslim. I am a student, shall be a student, may be, a better student!!

      And where learning is concerned, is there any dearth of commentaries on Geetaa, that makes you unhappy that Hindu intelligentsia themselves are not well-versed with Geetaa? That can never be the yardstick to say, how good a Hindu a person is.

      “Truth” is very mystique! Think it over!! Then you will appreciate relevance of scriptures for “realising the real truth”.

      I think to be impressed by how Christians have tried to spread Bible is itself immaturity. By spreading Bible, what are they spreading – Eulogy of a so-called “divinity” which had to carry its own cross? Is it that, what they are spreading? Is that then good for humanity?

    • Vishalji,

      I agree with you that we have to learn from religions like Christianity & Islam – not spirituality, but marketing and defending of our religion.

      Please read an article by R Jagannathan – “Hindutva & mass-market religions” – http://tinyurl.com/2u4alcy

      The Gita has also been translated into numerous languages – both foreign and Indian. Only difference is that we are not distributing the Gita free of charge whereas Christians thrust the Bible into your hands whether you are in a bus-stand, railway station or temple.
      We are very much lagging behind them in the area of marketing of religion. We lack (do not have) religious missionaries. They have millions of priests and nuns, well-trained and committed, for spreading their religion.

      So, what Hinduism needs now are well-trained, committed missionaries to spread Hinduism among Hindus – just as Swami Chinmayanandaji used to say “to convert Hindus to Hinduism” – that is the need of the hour.

  3. actually its nice, thoughts of jesus should not be tagged under limit of religion.

  4. So, what Hinduism needs now are well-trained, committed missionaries to spread Hinduism among Hindus –//// i object, hindu is person who live beside sindhu, what he does is hinduISM it may or may not be related to SANATAN DHARMA , its only for AARYA(nobles) so it should be lets make everyone AARYA :) with hindu don’t you think we make our view narrow minded ?

    • Vishnu-ansh,

      I feel that we should not worry about the origin of the word Hindu. For me, Hinduism, Sanatana Dharma and Arya dharma are all one and the same.

      In those days people of other religions were not there in this country. So, a particular name was not required for our religion or dharma. Our scriptures call it Arya Dharma or Sanatana Dharma. What is important is that our Dharma has to be protected and preserved. It has to be passed on to our posterity with all its purity.

      I believe that the whole world is in need of this Dharma. That is why I said we need well-trained, committed missionaries to spread Hinduism among Hindus.

  5. Dear friends, I wonder about what you have been disputing about “our religion”. It seems to me that this is something new in India, in comparison with Jewish religion and their historical derivatives. They had their own “God”, the God of Israel and their religion, they said and say, too. Never Brahma was called the God of Hindus! This is not because they didn’t know other populations and religions, but because they, in the highest level of their civilization, were more interested in the truth and the moral law (intentionally I don’t want to emphasize by using capital letters, in order to mean satya and dharma). There was always patriotism, maybe in historically justified forms and expressions, but we can’t close sanatana dharma inside it. When I listened about Gandhi, I didn’t sympathize with him because of his Hindutva, but I developed love for India, because of his universal greatness. The same I think about Ramakrishna. I’m reading and meditating on Shankaracarya’s Upadeshasahasri. It is great. I am not so interested in finding its being an important book in the history of Indian philosophy and theology. It is indeed. More important is the fact that it is a great fruit of the human thought. But the most important think is the extreme effort to catch essential truth we can find in it.
    I am a Buddhist (so usually say I, even if I don’t appreciate the ist-ending of that word). I can’t nationalize my Buddhadharma as Indian or Italian one. Other people could do of course. But what’s the use?
    About the historical or mythical figure of Jesus Christ, who was near my feelings of joy and guilt as a child, I must say that I don’t share the fact his murder was a victory of the evil definitively. In the belief of Christians it was rather the first step to resurrection, that is the victory of good. Anyway I believe that we can find a lot of analogies and differences among different religions, whose sense and interpretation one has the right to choose as one prefers. I prefer Ramakrishna’s criteria of composition and evaluation of each other from a transcendental point of view.
    I have been surprised in reading that Hindus must learn from Christians how “to market and defend” their religion! I live in Italy now, I have been living in Singapore for seven years. I know the general nature of the conversions to Christianity. For most of them it is the first step to distance themselves from their traditions in order to reach the harbor of secularism, materialism, utilitarianism, which is the main religion in Western world.
    Sanatanadharma has had and has an enormous good influence in Western (often barbarian) world. This has much more importance than spreading Hindutva everywhere for the benefit of exterior and material statistics.
    Hindutvam astu dharmas tu jayatu.

    Piergiorgio Muzi

  6. “Jesus Christ” in the original Hebrew is “Yehoshua Ha Mashiach”. In the Hebrew language vowels are not placed in the original text in the Holy Bible. So the name “Yehoshua” without the vowels is “Yhshv.” “Yh” is the Name of God which actually means in English “I AM,” though normally transliterated into English as “The LORD” because God’s Name is sacred and ineffable. “ShV” means “Saves” or “Salvation.” So, the Name “Jesus” means “The LORD Saves.” And “Christ” means “The Anointed One.” All in all, Jesus Christ literally means “The Lord, the Anointed One Who Saves.”

    Long time ago, when man disobeyed God and rebelled against Him and chose his way rather than God and chose to replace the Living God with nature, natural things and even idols in the shape of man, God set about in motion a rescue plan to restore man’s relationship with God. He spoke to Abraham about 2000years BC, and promised him that in Abraham’s line the Saviour of the world would be born and through Him all the world would be saved and restored to a living relationship with God. Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of that promise. So, Christ is a divine person i.e. He is God in flesh. And He has power over death. No one can bring the dead back to life. But the Author of Life has power over Life and Death.

    The disobedience of Man towards his Creator is called “sin.” For man to find union with God our Creator, man’s sin has to be removed or paid for. Even in the Taittiriya Aranyaka in the Black Yajurveda, there’s a shloka that says: ” Sarvapapa pariharo raktha prokshna mavasyam,” which means for the removal of all sin (papa), shedding of blood is necessary. The Holy Bible says in the Letter written to the Hebrews: “For without the shedding of blood there’s no remission for sins.” Hebrews 9:22. So, Jesus Christ who was pure and holy was an acceptable sacrifice to God when He shed His blood on the cross for the sins of all mankind. Because the sacrifice that is to be offered to God was to be blemishless, pure and holy.

    When Christ resurrected from the dead on the third day as He had promised His disciples and afterwards He appeared to several of them and even shared a meal with them. Before He left the earth, He commanded His disciples to take this Good News to all the peoples of the earth. Man now does not have to fear death. Man now does not have to work hard to receive salvation. Man’s philosophies and man’s religious system will not be able to take man anywhere near God. But God Himself has paid all the debt and made it possible for man to have a restored relationship with God our Father. Hence this is the Good News. So, for this same reason, when men discover that God in His great love for mankind, has done everything for us to have our original identity, are compelled by His love to share the Good News. Not only that it is the command of God to take the News to everyone in this world. Hence Bibles are published in their millions and billions to share the Good News to everyone which is free!!

    • Is there often a confusion between Indian Nationalism and Hinduism ? To my knowledge Hinduism was a word coined by the British, let us say, to distinguish, primarily in India, people who follow idol-worship and those who don’t, typically the Muslims. So, to my mind the word Hinduism is a geographical and political term. Why should then one speak of spreading an -ism which has such inherent conceptual and boundary limits ?

      One of the basic tenets of Sanatan dharma is “kRuNvanto vishwam Aryam” So, there is the concept of spreading Aryatva across the world. Is Aryatva an -ism ? No. It is a way of life, a code of conduct for a congenial progressive society.

      When Christian missionaries indulge in religious conversions do they spread a congenial social conduct ? No. They want more people coming to the churches and not go to temples or mosques or Gurudwaras. That definitely causes a social divide and cannot be said to be a socially congenial activity. Even kRuNvanto vishwam Aryam has to spread ensuring that an such activity shall be socially congenial.

      When Christian missionaries indulge in religious conversions, do they amass blind followers ? A demographic analysis suggests that “yes, it often is amassing blind followers”. What is achieved ?

      There ought to be nobler objectives to any social activity. Does one become a nobler person just by converting to Christianity or Islam or Buddhism or Hinduism ?

      Spreading nobility should not require Marketing ! Why imitate an activity, which does not have any nobler objectives ? An objective of increasing demographic count without any other nobler objective is pitiable and need not be imitated at all. Rather it should be challenged, but only by an activity with nobler objectives.

      For devising an activity with nobler objectives, there ought to be a list of the noble objectives. There is no need to invent the list. It is already there !

      sarvetra sukhinaH santu
      sarve santu nirAmayAH
      sarve bhadrANi pashyantu
      mA kashchit duHkhabhAg-bhavet

      om shAntiH shAntiH shAntiH !!!

      • Thank you for your post but it’s not in reply to what I said, you may want to reread my post. I’m talking about Christ, the Messiah, the Anointed One. The One who said I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, THE LIFE. The One who said: I AM THE BREAD OF LIFE. The One who said: MOST ASSUREDLY I SAY TO YOU, I AM THE DOOR OF THE SHEEP. The One who said: I HAVE COME THAT THEY MAY HAVE LIFE AND THAT THEY MAY HAVE IT MORE ABUNDANTLY. The One who said: I AM THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD. He is the Only One who also said: I AM THE RESURRECTION AND THE LIFE. HE WHO BELIEVES IN ME, THOUGH HE MAY DIE, HE SHALL LIVE.

        Asatoma sadgamaya : Lead me from untruth to Truth
        Tamasoma jyotirgamaya: Lead me from darkness to Light
        Mryutornma amrutangamaya: Lead me from death to Resurrection.

        God bless you sir!

  7. THERE ARE MANY FAULTS IN CHRISTIANITY BUT ONLY RELIGION OF BRAVE PEOPLE CAN STAND IN THIS SITUATION “VEER BHOGYA VASUNDHARA”.THEREFORE CHRISTIANITY AND ISLAM HAS COVER ALMOST WHOLE WORLD AND OUR RELIGION IS VERY ANCIENT, REACH AND MORE LOGICAL ,MASS APPEALING BUT IT IS NOW IN MINORITY .

  8. Once one Christian father said, “One major difference between sanAtana dharma and Christianity is that sanAtana dharma believes in rebirth and incarnations, whereas Christianity does not believe in rebirth.

    Now I have Mr. Ajay saying, Jesus is the one who said, I AM THE RESURRECTION AND THE LIFE. HE WHO BELIEVES IN ME, THOUGH HE MAY DIE, HE SHALL LIVE.

    I do not know whether I should be amused or confused !!

    Basically, my line of thinking is not whether Jesus was God or Godhood or not or not even whether is/was God Godhood or not. My line of thinking is what the role of religion in social life is. My post of May 5, 2010 outlined my thoughts fairly in detail.

    Since a so-called religious activity such as religious conversions is not conducive to congenial social environment, it is objectionable.

    About comment of Vishaal Chhayaa I think which religion is in majority and which religion is in minority is not significant. In the seventh chapter in Shreemadbhagavadgeetaa, there is a clear mention “manuShyaaNaam sahasreShu kashchit yatati siddhaye | yatataamapi siddhaanaam kashchin-maam vetti tatvataH” Those who understand Him tatvataH are the people who will always be the savors and the guiding beacons. People like Shirdiwale Sai-Baba for example. The fraternity of people who “mam tatvataH vetti” will guide the society appropriately, I shall not be unduly worried of demographic statistics by this religion or that religion.

    I can’t understand why Mr. Ajay keeps speaking of greatness of Jesus. As I said in my post of May 5, 2010, it will be and should be individual choice whether to have faith in Christ or in KrishNa or in Allah or in Sai-Baba. People trying to propagate one particular faith are possibly misguided people themselves and would misguide others. That is not good.

    • For Mr. Abhayankar:
      Hello there,

      I’m not quoting from general knowledge or from experience. At the end of the day, everyone has to fall back on to the books that are in our hands. Just like in engineering, when you are designing a new product, you very often start from first principles and if in doubt you just look up your text book. So what I’m trying to tell you, though belief and experience can be subjective, to find the truth we have always got to go back to the fundamentals.

      So as for what Messiah(Masih) has spoken we could easily find out by just referring to the New Testament in any language. And for that matter the Greek manuscripts and other copies of the NT are quite intact in our hands dating back to at least 100AD! As far as who is the WAY TO GOD and WHO REVEALED THE TRUTH, if we diligently seek it, the Truth, God has made it quite clear to all mankind. I’m simply stating to you what the words of Messiah are as recorded in the New Testament, by His first disciples.

      There is no concept of re-incarnation or rebirth in the Holy Bible. For God made every man unique. Every man is born once and dies once and there is judgement beyond death. What Messiah/Masih promised is eternal life starting from hereafter for whoever believes in Him. And He is promising to raise the dead back to life – for He was able to raise the dead back to life while He was on earth, so He could say what He is: Resurrection and Life.

      For VISHAL CHHAYA:
      I don’t think Hinduism is more ancient than Judaism. Like Mr. Abhayankar has said Hinduism is the amalgamation of several folk traditions and ideals of people generally living in the geographical region, that is India.

      India is not more ancient than Egypt because Egyptian documents and architecture and their written script is pretty intact and the earliest Egyptians could only be dated to ca3000BC at the most. And they worshipped different gods human-like, semi-human, semi-animal and celestial objects with human features i.e., anthropomorphic, not very different what Indians worship today, not very different to what the Romans and the Greeks worshipped and all other ancient civilizations worshipped. Because the Holy Bible says: God put eternity in the heart of men. So men, in the absence of divine revelation, are always seeking to fill that void in their hearts with the need to worship something. But how wonderful it would be if men were to fill that void in their hearts with the One whom they are made to worship! Hope this clarifies. Thank you.

      • @Ajay, your (mis)-translation of the Sanskrit Shloke from the Brhadaranyaka Upanishad is typical of Christian shenanigan.

        The correct translation for “mrtyorma amrtam gamaya” is “Lead us from death to immortality”. The insidious substitution of the word immortality by resurrection to fit into your one dimensional only-Jesus-saves-souls rest-goes-to-hell world view serves to expose the kind of despicable mindset prevalent among Christian supremacists such as yourself.

    • Please do not say that I’m speaking of the greatness of Jesus. Jesus(Yesu) came to earth to tell us that God’s greatness is our greatness!! This is the Good News! We do not have to think: “Oh I’m after all human, I do not how much good I’ve done, or how much bad, I do not know what’s beyond death, I do not know whether there’s reincarnation like the gurus say or whether death is simply the end of it all…” We do not have to worry or think like that or even be afraid of that! For Masih(Christ) came to remove exactly that fear to tell us that God is for us and not against us. So Masih’s greatness is our greatness – He took all our sin upon Himself that we could have eternal communion with God, eternal fellowship, even eternal union with Him who made us and formed us! So therefore rejoice! For Masih has done everything for us! His greatness is our greatness!

  9. Dear Mr. Ajay,

    To me it sounds diabolical to say in the first sentence “do not say that I’m speaking of the greatness of Jesus.” and to say in the last sentence “Masih has done everything for us! His greatness is our greatness!”

    My objection is not to Jesus or to what he preached. My objection is to the way even his death is eulogised and the way Christianity is propagated.

    It may interest you to read –

    dharma yo bAdhate dharmo na sa dharmaH kudharmakaH |
    avirodhAttu yo dharmaH sa dharmaH satyavikrama ||

    धर्म यो बाधते धर्मो न स धर्मः कुधर्मकः ।
    अविरोधात्तु यो धर्मः स धर्मः सत्यविक्रम ॥

    This verse from the Mahabharata is addressed to Satyavikrama. Any dharma (way of life, religion) which violates another’s dharma is not true dharma. It is, rather, bad dharma (kudharma). That dharma, on the other hand, which flourishes without harming interest of others, is true dharma indeed.

    If people should have a role model of one, who “took all our sin upon Himself that we could have eternal communion with God” I would like to think of Shivaji !

    Let me come to your mention, “I do not know whether there’s reincarnation like the gurus say or whether death is simply the end of it all… We do not have to worry or think like that or even be afraid of that!” To my mind, it is such lack of fear which promotes people to do whatever they want, good or bad. Do even bad things, go to the church and confess. You are done !, Is that good ? Is it not utter non-sense ?

    And if you have good understanding of good dharma and conduct yourself accordingly, where is the question of fear ? Whoever said in any religion that a person with good conduct would be afraid of God ? You mention, “Masih(Christ) came to remove exactly that fear to tell us that God is for us and not against us.” Where is the question of anyone of good conduct thinking that God is against ?

    See this quotation
    नादत्ते कस्यचित्पापं न चैव सुकृतं विभुः ।
    अज्ञानेनावृतं ज्ञानं तेन मुह्यन्ति जन्तवः ॥ गीता ५-१५
    I feel pity that people do not study what eternal wisdom, what far more positive role models are available since thousands of years

    I think, it is time to stop any further interaction on the subject especially with you, especially with people who do not mind being even diabolical, primarily to push their own point of view.

    • Dear Abhayankarji,

      I appreciate your post and the points you raised in your discussion. Let me state at the outset that I’m not having a personal dig at you. I enjoy this discussion and if you also do, I’m open to continue and enable proper understanding of each other’s perspective and points.

      Firstly: I wasn’t speaking of the “greatness” of Masih per se wrt anyone. All I was doing was quoting what is recorded in the Holy Bible as Masih’s words. (You’d do good to remember that you claimed first “I can’t understand why Mr. Ajay keeps speaking of greatness of Jesus. “)

      Secondly: My point is exactly the same as you, that no one fears God, hence there’s so much injustice and inequity in India everywhere, so much discrimination. According to the Holy Bible God created all men equal. The Holy Bible also reveals that God is our Father. So that means all men irrespective of caste, ethnicity etc. etc. are our brothers. Despite this we see that there’s so much injustice and exploitation, so much inequality all around us and it’s headline news every day of corruption in every aspect of private and public life in India. There’s no value for human life in this country.

      Because there’s no fear of God and so much “self-righteousness” i.e. Swadharma, there’s so much inequity all around us. When everyone has their own “swadharma” how could you then say this is good and that isn’t. Everyone claims that he/she is right because for one’s own circumstances the decisions that one made seem to be right even at the cost of violating another person’s rights. You will have lost the “moral scales.” This is a very slippery path and unfortunately that’s the moral and philosophical framework on which most Indians build their lives. The very concept of: “swadharma is sudharma and paradharma is kudharma” violates its own premise. Because you can’t have “swadharma” and “paradharma” because there’s only one dharma.

      And the “fear of God” in the Holy Bible is not a cringing fear that wants us to run away from Him, but a reverent fear, a fear that we have to give an account to Him for all our actions and even our thoughts. Because He is able to see everything! The Holy Bible says that God loves us! This is amazing! No other book in the whole world said it. But that is the amazing thing about God for God loves us and He really cares about us because He made us. That means He cares about those that are suffering and those that are causing it. And He also knows that those that are the cause of suffering, sometimes do it like that there is no God. And God is concerned even about that. That’s the message of the Holy Bible.

      So the “fear of God” in the Holy Bible persuades and compels every man to think twice about his actions and thoughts. That doesn’t just apply to one nationality or ethnicity or people from one geographical region but it applies to all mankind. Because God made the whole earth and all of mankind.

      The “fear of God” in the Holy Bible is one that is motivated by love. Because once we understood the Fatherhood of God, we will begin to fear Him. After all, I fear my parents even past thirty years of age.

      When we understand our identity before God our Maker and Creator, when we “attain self-realization” or in other words begin to see who we are as individuals before God, then we will begin to fear Him and this will then begin to influence and work through every aspect of our lives, both private and public, our relationships with fellow men, even our attitudes.

      Thirdly: There’s only one dharma! “Dharma” is the same for every human no matter where he or she is in the world. “Murder” is murder. “Stealing” is stealing. “Coveting” is coveting. “Adultery” is adultery. Whether one is Indian, Japanese, Nigerian, American or German: “Murder” is murder. “Stealing” is stealing. “Coveting” is coveting. “Adultery” is adultery. Righteousness is righteousness! There’s no different name to it no matter what the culture or country, only different in language.

      The very concept of: “swadharma is sudharma and paradharma is kudharma” is absurd. Because you can’t have “swadharma” and “paradharma” because there’s only one dharma. You can’t have “swadharma” and “paradharma” because you have to have two different scales for measuring dharma. But dharma is not something that can be measured on scales, so you can’t have relative dharma. It’s a bit like “water.” Water might have different names in different languages, but water is water no matter where you are in the world. And every man needs it to quench his thirst.

      And the standard for dharma is given by God and shown by Masih in His life. Coz’ Christ is the only one who satisfied all the righteous requirements of God and was perfect and without sin. So His was a pure, holy, blemishless, atoning sacrifice acceptable to God for the sin of all mankind.

      Hence, Masih’s death is a cause for celebration for the whole earth, for all of mankind. We do not “eulogize,” because He is not in the grave anymore. But we celebrate His death, we sing about it, we praise Him for it and we call the day He died a happy day and it is also called Good Friday for that same reason. Because Christ’s death wasn’t the End of the Story. Because the third day after He laid down His life on the cross, He rose from the grave, from the dead. He did not remain in the grave any more but He came back to life! Death couldn’t hold Him down and the grave couldn’t contain Him – Death and Grave were defeated! Once and for all! YESU MASIH IS ALIVE!

      Fourthly: God is a forgiving God despite His justice. That means when a man realizes that he had sinned against God and so not in relationship with God, he would first have to confess his/her sins and accept Yesu Prabhu as Saviour. God then forgives that person, because Masih had paid for that man’s sin on the cross. But God also empowers that person to overcome sin and temptation-to-do-evil in one’s life through the power of His Spirit after one is saved. That means: confession and forgiveness are not a licence to sin, it’s a means for reconciliation with God. But if you continue to disobey God and mess up your life through the things you do, God speaks to you, but at the end of the day every man is responsible for one’s own actions and has to give account before the judgement seat of Christ. But complete redemption from our sinful nature is when Christ returns, but until then we patiently and expectantly continue our fellowship with God in the life we live on earth.

      Thank you, Ajay

      • Dear Ajay Ji,
        Namaskar!
        After i have posted my concern on this site i happenned to read your reply to Sh. Abhayankarji’s letter addressed to you and also that of his views.I feel very relieved to see the deapth of discussion and concern both of you have for the entire humanity.

        We need people like you who dare to take up the challenge posed by the life and its intricate realities.

        Most respectfully and with all humility I would like to add in furthrence of your dialogue that for peace, prosperity and sustainance of life on this tiny (as of now lonely) planet Earth, we have to minimise our ego and maximise dialogue and ways for conciliation on all divergent ideas, ideals and ideologies.

        If one strive to be the best and the only best without caring about many of his/her fellow brothers and sisiters, who reamined underpriviledged or delibrately kept out of the mainstream of Indian society, how can one call him/herself rooted in God or the concept of God or repersentative of any religion/dharma.

        Without social inclusiveness of all and every one which is of paramount importance, how can mutual love sustain?

        Without developing warm relations with every one one knows or tends to repersent with transparent self-life (family,relations, children, economy, resources etc.etc.) it shall become illusory and self serving to talk of dharma, India is badly insfeted with self serving Baba and Godman?

        No doubt as Sh. Abhayankarji metioned that Dharma begin from ones own life, to be the change one want to see in the world,

        But equally right when Sh. Ajay Ji endorses that discrimination and absence of equity is source of all evils. And no virtue can stay if one is complacent without questioning and quenching from the eternal source God.

        Shanti, Dr. Pawan

  10. if God is our father, as our worldly father does not discrimanate among his children and want them to live in peace and harmony with each other; then how come God our Heavenly Father can divide a society on caste basis, and unfortunately it is endorsed in Hindu scripture and more than that it is the ground reality of India and some of the surrounding countries remained associated with India or (were India).

    In no other religions other than Hindu (oriental)society is fractured on caste.

    Does God creates orderly society or totaly lawless as is India?

    • Dear Dr. Pawan Kumar Aryan,

      I wonder what the subject of your doctorate is. I do not want to get into personal aspects. I am enquiring of this only because by my simplistic understanding I expect a Doctorate-qualified person to be making a well-studied statement. Unfortunately your statement does not appeal to be one.

      Caste system developed more because of lack of an open system of education. There is a saying “child of a musician cries also musically !!” With the lack of an open system of education a carpenter would make his sons also skilled in the craft of carpentry. So, the professions became family-based, which developed into castes.

      One good thing of British Raj was that education became open. Had it not been so, Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar also would not have been able to have what all education he had.

      In today’s society caste has become irrelevant. Does anybody ask in day to day life “What is your caste?” But people of SC/ST want their caste to be identified because of the pecuniary benefits they get. And now the “creamy layer” among the SC/ST have become a point of contention.

      Lord KrishNa was a Yadav. Was he SC/ST ? Today all Yadav’s want them to be recognized as SC/ST !!

      Please ! God did not make castes. Castes developed due to societal imperfections. Nobody wants to give up the concept, purely because of political and economic motivations ! Where is the question of God creating castes and allowing them to continue ?

      Blaming the caste system on God is utter immaturity.

      To say that Hindu scriptures endorse caste system is also utter immaturity. In BhagavadgItA in 18-41 there is definite mention of ब्राह्मणक्षत्रियविशां शूद्राणां च परंतप ।
      But these are not names of castes. Please they are not. They are names of VarNa-s And the concept of varNa is very clearly defined in 4-13 चातुर्वर्ण्यम् मया सृष्टं गुणकर्मविभागशः । So it is an individual-specific concept based on the qualities, aptitudes and jobs a person would do. It is not related to the family or the caste in which the person is born. Even in 18-41 mentioned above, one needs to consider its context detailed in the second line there. कर्माणि प्रविभक्तानि स्वभावप्रभवैर्गुणैः । So, the varNa-s are for division of labour कर्माणि प्रविभक्तानि and again based purely on स्वभावप्रभवैर्गुणैः । skills and aptitudes of the persons !

      God does own having created चातुर्वर्ण्यम्
      God does say “मया सृष्टं”
      But that was चातुर्वर्ण्यम् not जातिधर्म or जातिभेद
      These जातिधर्म जातिभेद are creations of social immaturities

      And which society is perfect for that matter ? Why did Americans think that something revolutionary event in American history took place by Mr. Barack Obama being elected a President ?

      I have been to US and have had some feel of societal undercurrents of that so-called “modern society !” or most advanced country !

      Right study of scriptures will help to remove social immaturities. That would need political will also ! Don’t blame every other thing on God !!

      शुभमस्तु ।
      SL Abhyankar

      • Dear Mr. Abhayankar,

        I fail to understand the logic of some Indians – not that I don’t understand per se, I do understand the crookedness because it is so obvious, but the way you keep changing position like a slippery fish just to avoid facing up to reality and asking hard questions because that makes you really uncomfortable is just outright awful, shameful and unforgivable.

        It is a matter of definitions, so let’s clearly define your standpoints and from those fixed points we can then continue the discussion. Every common man in India understands that the words “varna” and “caste” are used interchangeably. If you are taking a particular philosophical position, then kindly state it. You have to have a starting point, a base from which you promulgate your theory. You can’t just pick ‘n mix as you please – and that is exactly the problem I’ve been highlighting in my previous posts – the problem with India, there are no moral absolutes, i.e., you keep on saying I have my dharma and you have your dharma – because that is exactly the type of primitive tribalism which is bogging down Indian civilization. Other ancient civilizations and societies understood the pitfalls of such a position and have reformed their societies by taking on new moral grounds and positions. And in this case the Holy Bible provided a liberating, reforming framework by bringing in some clear definitions in the understanding of man, God, ideas governing relationships between God and man and man and man.

        Now, after having said that, you have to profess a point-of-view, whether you are basing your view of the world on Rig Veda which defines the origin of caste or you are basing your understanding of the caste system on the Gita, you will have to make it quite clear.

        Then that would become the basis for our conversation here, which could perhaps help us to arrive at informed and knowledgeable conclusions.

        The fundamental point is the reality of discrimination and corruption in India and the basis that is used to enforce this discrimination and corruption upon vulnerable minds and people. Instead of philosophizing like most Indians who are sitting comfortably and got everything to lose to disavow the caste system, because that would be the very beginning of the loss of all privileges in the society seemingly endorsed by the religion that is practised by the masses, I recommend that you should clearly define your world-view, give us a clear explanation for the reasons of the appalling filth, poverty and slums on the streets of all the towns, cities and villages of India, from your world-view either based upon the Vedas or the Gita. Then I believe we can sure begin to have a healthy and fruitful conversation, otherwise you keep bogging us in this miry clay of your interpretations of the various outdated texts from the Indian past.

        Thank you,
        Ajay

  11. You have erased the comments send by Dr. Pawan Kumar Aryan.
    I think this is the sole reason why sanskrit language has been reduced nto hystory.
    Hydrocephalous can never nurture the body spirit it need be punctured and treated.

    • Dr Pawan Kumar Aryan,

      Sorry for the misunderstanding. I did not receive email notification from “wordpress” about your comments. So, they were pending. I saw them only today when I opened my dashboard. Hence the delay in approving them.

  12. Dear Mr. Ajay,

    Can you please give specific statements from my posts where I said one thing once and something contrary of that another time ?

    Only then I can accept your charge that I change my positions “like a slippery fish”.

    As far as the scriptures which I would like to study and understand every scripture which is logical and has permanent value is acceptable to me, be it Vedas, gItA, Bible, QurAN, dhammapada, granth-sAhib, whichever. For me a good, valid statement is a good valid statement. So, for me a good statement should not have the brand of this religion or that.

    Thanks,

  13. Dear SL Abhayankar Ji and Ajay Ji
    Parnam
    I am trying to
    “I am enquiring of this only because by my simplistic understanding I expect a Doctorate-qualified person to be making a well-studied statement. Unfortunately your statement does not appeal to be one”
    I am not a doctorate (but qualified physician) in any subject, but even if I could have been one my statement would have been the same; because I believe that what our society is–is more important than what minor contradictions are recorded in our sacred scriptures. All ingredients of cast division are well present in our society which is product of our sacred scriptures only; however there are attempts by the pseudo historians laced with vested interests to quote selective phrases and to try to portrait otherwise. It is sedating the needed sense of enquiry among the sensitive souls and literate class of India.
    At this juncture there is another conspiracy brewing in the corridors of the power—“caste less society”.
    Keeping majority of the population devoid of the land holdings for centuries together, solely quoting the sacred scriptures and underlining the frightening scenes of narak emanating out of the purav janam key pap fallacy. Now their progeny for staying at the top of the pyramid is advocating caste-less society; because the reservations for the out-castes is acting as a leveler at least in the Govt. jobs. So reservation is branded as discriminatory, factually it is. Although the wrongs of the history cannot be undone completely but reservations for the outcastes is need of the hour. No explanation can undo the tortuous discrimination flourished for centuries under the garb of sacred scriptures.
    In today’s flat world although the caste division seems offensive but for the historical reality of India it is must to serve the out castes who suffered massive torture religiously, without raising a finger against their masters the custodians of the sacred scriptures.
    Intentionally; there are concerted efforts by the advocates of the privileged to distort the history and more specifically the role of the sacred scriptures in the propagation of the caste division. In today’s scenario when Indian population has grown out of the control and the international monitoring is staying intact the continuation of caste division for the purpose of providing some benefits to the outcastes is seen as a remedy by the sociologists but an economic and social threat by the privileged castes of India.
    It is blown as if the reservation to SC/BC is posing threat to the privileged castes, who enjoyed full control over the land and all other types of the social privileges for ages. Most of the today’s white collared are either descendants of the ruling, preaching, trading and warrior castes, or products of reservation. The selective misnomers like varna, caste (instead of using appropriate words like outcastes, abused and tortured) are blown out of the proportion to create confusion against Indian answer to the call of flat world.

    “Caste system developed more because of lack of an open system of education. There is a saying “child of a musician cries also musically !!” With the lack of an open system of education a carpenter would make his sons also skilled in the craft of carpentry. So, the professions became family-based, which developed into castes.”

    It is naïve to conclude the origin of caste by one factor only. There were compelling political, social and economic factors to keep the sacred scriptures and religion in tune with the purav janam key pap associated with the poverty and purav janam key punay with the prosperity.
    Simple, because the carpenter was not having any land holding in his name due to his purav janam key pap so he has to stay complacent and train his progeny to work for his masters. His art was abused and exploited by the privileged castes as the other low castes were not in a position to live in any artisan home. Shanty hutments were there only abode, the same is true even in today’s India.
    “One good thing of British Raj was that education became open. Had it not been so, Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar also would not have been able to have what all education he had.”
    Ambedkar was not like other millions of outcastes, due to the job and position of his father. Bhimrao Ramji Ambedkar was born in the British-founded town and military cantonment of Mhow in the Central Provinces (now in Madhya Pradesh). He was the 14th and last child of Ramji Maloji Sakpal and Bhimabai. His family was of Marathi background from the town of Ambavade in the Ratnagiri district of modern-day Maharashtra. They belonged to the Hindu, Mahar caste, who were treated as untouchables and subjected to intense socio-economic discrimination. Ambedkar’s ancestors had for long been in the employment of the army of the British East India Company, and his father Ramji Sakpal served in the Indian Army at the Mhow cantonment. He had received a degree of formal education in Marathi and English, and encouraged his children to learn and work hard at school.
    Belonging to the Kabir Panth, Ramji Sakpal encouraged his children to read the Hindu classics. He used his position in the army to lobby for his children to study at the government school, as they faced resistance owing to their caste. Although able to attend school, Ambedkar and other untouchable children were segregated and given no attention or assistance by the teachers. They were not allowed to sit inside the class. Even if they needed to drink water somebody from a higher caste would have to pour that water from a height as they were not allowed to touch either the water or the vessel that contained it. This task was usually performed for the young Ambedkar by the school peon, and if the peon was not available then he had to go without water
    Born into a poor Mahar (then considered an Untouchable caste) family, Ambedkar spent his whole life fighting against social discrimination, the system of Chaturvarna — the categorization of Hindu society into four varnas — and the Hindu caste system. He is also credited with providing a spark for the conversion of hundreds of thousands of untouchables to Theravada Buddhism. Ambedkar has been honoured with the Bharat Ratna, India’s highest civilian award.
    Overcoming numerous social and financial obstacles, Ambedkar became one of the first so called “Outcast” to obtain a college education in India. Eventually earning law degrees and multiple doctorates for his study and research in law, economics and political science from Columbia University and the London School of Economics, Ambedkar returned home as a famous scholar and practiced law for a few years before publishing journals advocating political rights and social freedom for India’s so called untouchables. He is regarded as a Bodhisattva by Indian Buddhists even though he never claimed himself to be a Bodhisattva

    “In today’s society caste has become irrelevant. Does anybody ask in day to day life “What is your caste?” But people of SC/ST want their caste to be identified because of the pecuniary benefits they get. And now the “creamy layer” among the SC”
    Dear Abhayankar Ji, Ajay Ji’s reply to your lines seems to be more relevant as Indian society is still driven by the superstitious fatalistic notions and as a result of that even present day educated general masses are insular to corruption and exploitation. I think India lack rock bottom to stay firm, however there is no dearth of the same in this world of God.

    Shanti aur Prem
    pkaryan

    • Dear Dr. PK Aryan ji,

      Thank you so much for a sound treatment of the subject matter. I appreciate the thorough background and understanding that you provided on this forum.

      That’s my deepest concern – the so-called elite of India, those who are ruling the roost up and down the country and from east to west – are not realising that our modern Indian civilization is standing on such shaky ground and so tenuously hanging together. We are not looking inward and confronting the ills of our society, there’s no soul searching in the face of such disturbing poverty, such distressing inequity in the country, it looks so hopeless.

      No one has a sense of ownership in this country. I remember whilst in school, everyday we used to do a pledge “All Indians are my brothers and sisters. I love my country…” Whilst millions of Indians are perishing, not just because of poverty because of the whole way the system is built here, including for example, we have the highest rates of road accidents in this country – there seems like there’s absolutely no value for human life, there’s another extreme on the opposite end, where the powers that be in the country are doing everything possible to usurp national resources for their own mean selfish benefits.

      It’s very appalling – the most recent episode that beamed the state of the country on world-wide media was the handling of Commonwealth Games. I heard one BBC reporter speaking to an Indian leader and commenting that there could be some serious social problems in the society despite the media hype and gloss about a new India.

      I hope Indians stop thinking of themselves as one religion or the other or as one caste or the other and start thinking of themselves as Indians and begin to feel some sense of responsibility for our civilization.

      Thank you,
      Best regards,
      Ajay

  14. @Ajay
    >>And the standard for dharma is given by God and shown by Masih in His life. Coz’ Christ is the only one who satisfied all the righteous requirements of God and was perfect and without sin. So His was a pure, holy, blemishless, atoning sacrifice acceptable to God for the sin of all mankind.

    The use of the word Dharma for ideologies that espouse totalitarian, supremacist ethos is ludicrious. The very idea that Humans are sinful and only belief in Jesus and Jesus alone can save one is abhorent and goes against any sort of logic and reasoning. Why should I believe that I am sinful just because I believe in NOT ONLY Jesus? Only sheep without any brains will believe such balloney.

    >>give us a clear explanation for the reasons of the appalling filth, poverty and slums on the streets of all the towns, cities and villages of India, from your world-view either based upon the Vedas or the Gita. Then I believe we can sure begin to have a healthy and fruitful conversation, otherwise you keep bogging us in this miry clay of your interpretations of the various outdated texts from the Indian past.

    Perhaps you would care to explain why a Christianized South America and Southern Africa contains some of the poorest, filthiest, corrupted and crime ridden countries in the world. Clearly your my-way-or-the-highway narrow views don’t allow you to see that.

    As a Hindu, I am free to believe in Jesus, Mohammad, Allah, God, and what not, or in no one but myself. As a supremacist Christian, you only believe in Jesus and the Bible and view all other beliefs as miry and outdated. Well, no surprise here.

    • Dear Manas,
      I noted your comments: perhaps “mrtyorma amrtam gamaya” could be translated as “death to immortality”, perhaps I got it wrong in translating “immortality” as “resurrection.” Nevertheless, it is pretty logical for me to see that once you are dead, and every living creature on earth does, you cannot go into immortality only after “coming out of” death – common sense says to me that “resurrection” is the door to immortality. And Christ proclaimed all along, that He came to die and that He was not going to remain in the grave and that He would defeat death once and for all and rise again from the dead. And He did. He resurrected and now He’s alive!

      As for your views on poverty in Southern America of Africa seems not well-informed. Because the latest statistics say that despite all the so called media hyper of “emerging India” India has the highest number of people suffering from hunger and at least 700 million people (70 crore) live with less than Rs. 45 per day. These are United Nations statistics – if you’d like me quote the source of my information, I have no problems to do so.

      For your own benefit, Chile was ranked 21 in the least corrupt nations and Barbados is ranked 17 in the same list published 2010. Both Chile and Barbados are in South America. As far as South Africa is concerned, the Apartheid movement was overthrown under the leadership of Bishop Desmond Tutu, an Anglican priest, who was also awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for his work. You’d do good to note that both South America and South Africa had tribal religions worshipping all kinds of nature and semi-human/animal deities previously.

      In the most recent Chilean mine disaster, the miners came out of the mine, one of whom proclaimed that along with the 33 miners there was a 34th person in the mine, protecting, encouraging and giving them hope and that 34th person was God in the words of the rescued miner. So, Chile is a good Christian nation.

      My point is that there is only One God who created the heavens, the earth, people and all living things. And He revealed Himself to Israel as a nation and ultimately He came down in flesh and His Name is Jesus, Yeshua, Yesu. God is appealing to all mankind to turn away from the corruption of their souls, from false gods and idols to Him.

  15. Brazil – another south American country has effectively reduced poverty in the country in the last decade according to the latest statistics and hence the same government/party went to power by getting re-elected a third time.

    Ecuador, another south American country jumped up the ranking list in the least corrupt nations this year.

    India dropped 3 places in the same list. And another credit to India – they created a new goddess, goddess of English language, a new god, god of movie star! A bunch of non-sense!!!

    Instead of dealing with poverty and corruption, famine and drought, and cleaning up the slums and their own streets, Indians are adding more gods to an already swelling record of some 3000000. What a non-sense?!

  16. Adarniya Bharateeya Ji, SLabhyankar Ji, Ajay Ji, Mansa Ji and all,
    Namastey
    I am thankful to all of you and particularly the inventor of internet and electronics who made the education, interaction and fruitful discussions possible while factually separated light years from each other. (I personally believe existence of life on other Earths/planets-supporting-life; because creator of billions of galaxies/God is beyond the reach of our little being)
    No human culture is bad or perfect. Truth can be nurtured and grown in any culture. Unfortunately while advocating truth and human values we mix it up with certain cultures and try to prove the truth riding on the vehicle of a certain culture and advocating it in superlative.
    We use to read all the participants of this cite finding time and tried to understand the views of all. Bharteeya ji and Abhyankar Ji, are fearing some kind danger to Hindus by calling it a Dharma, whereas Hindu is a way of life ad it assimilates social dharma and atmik/individual dharma. We deviates from the truth the moment we reach at conclusion that only Hindu culture is the best and Anadi in the world” or on the contrary Ajay Ji’s “only westerner culture is perfect”.
    However there is no defined and strict Biblical culture as is mistaken by many Christians that the western secular culture is the Biblical culture. So is true with Hindu culture as well. But the only difference with Hindu is that they have social dharma and spiritual dharma as separated with clear distinction. The western Christians are mistakenly trying to associate Bible and Christ with a particular culture brand. And the suo-motu is followed by the Indians converted to Christianity.
    India is not poor, corrupt, filthy having 700 millions BPL and infested with so called hydrocephalous leaders and managers, because of its culture and customs only; but all these pathological–rather cancerous manifestations are the result of confusion and duality in thought process created by misinterpretation of Hindu cultural values. Due to some ingrained defect and fallacy of Aham-brahmasami, Indian wholeheartedly and religiously try to understand the Pap/sinful nature of panch-tatva-sharir/flesh and end up justifying the Pap/Sin linking it with the circumstances. Whereas Pap/sin is Pap/Sin, and it need be accepted instead of contested, and there is no Gangajal that can wash our papas but it the Grace of Paramaishwar Ji/Taranaishwar Ji that can redeem us from our Papas. Not because of any quality in us or our dharma-karams but because he is our Parampita and want us to live free from Pap.
    Due to lack of proper understanding of Hindu culture and various interwoven mantras in our holy scriptures supporting Vashudev-Kutumbkam, we (Hindu) have been abused and made confused by the invaders. Instead of understanding and helping the rich culture to grow free from the dilemma it is suffering since ages every tiny Hindu cultural particle is labeled as Satanic. It has caused deep and oozing wounds on the body and psyche of the geography called Hindu.
    The day the rich cultural values of “Athithi Devo Bhav, Sarve Bhawantu Sukhinah, Yatra Narayastu Pujyantey” shall be assimilated in daily life and practice, Pap shall become Pap and confusion shall disappear because of the puja/prayer “Tamasho-ma-jyotirgamaya” and there shall remain no room for understanding homicide, war/dharamyudh with all kinds of weaponry, female infanticide, purav-janam key pap, etc. etc. and it shall prevent the society from justifying the same. So shall happen with insensitivity, ghastly rape, corruption and loot of the natural resources and rights of others in the name of caste division, secularism and democracy.
    The entire shortcomings in Indian society are not because of the Hindu scripture and culture only, but many are because of the Papi/adharmic nature of human being. Which are not addressed by enlightened souls, but are in-cashed and abused by the new age Babas and Gurus? There is clear pointing toward Adavaitvad (Only God) and Traitvad/Trinity (Sat-chit-anand), for Hindus the truth is welcome from any source, but where the need of conversion to other culture is to intercept the truth. The only prerequisite to nurture Shanti-prem/Peace-Love is respect for all cultures and love for the entire humanity because we are all children of the same God.
    Parampita/God our father provided us with swaitcha/freewill, not to declare oneself Ahambhramasmi/I am God, but to remain associated with Pavitrata/Grace by choice and shun Pap/sin of every kind.
    Social reform cannot bring any fundamental change in attitude until universal truth is not allowed to grow in native culture of every society. Let me conclude that every culture is great for its followers, may every human society of this Flat but crowded and warming planet be given an opportunity by the intellectuals and blessed souls to plant the sapling of the universal truth in every culture and nurture the same with local nutrient instead of applying the superior and inferior–cultural growth hormones.

    Shanti aur Prem

    Sabhi Ko Deepavali ki Subhkamanai/May Festival of light enlighten us!

    pkaryan

    • Dear Dr. PK Aryan,

      Kindly do not misquote, everything I have said is printed clearly above and I never said: “only westerner culture is perfect.”

      If you didn’t understand the thrust of my argument the first time, please read it a second time or a third.

      Thank you,
      Ajay

      • Adarniya Ajay Ji
        Parnam

        I am pained to mis-read and mis-quote your views as comming from the advocate of westerner culture being the the superior one.

        Unfortunately whenever some one advocating Bible or Christianity (whether one is actually putting into practice what Christ did/siad or not)interacts or appears into the common Indian mind, the Indian mind starts the processing and immediately, General O-Dyer, Indian actoress Helen wearing cross, coat-pant-tie, skirts, westerner churches, westerner mode of prayer/puja, orchestra laden choirs– burdens and confused the invader-phobic common Indian mind.I don’t know whether it is a sub-conscious conspiracy or mare media-hype or mis-understanding.
        I am sorry to mis-quote you, Ajay Ji.
        I tender my apology.
        Please pardon me!
        You never ever advocated about the westerner culture “as the perfect one” however adarniya SL abhyankar Ji and bharteeya ji touched the extreme note while advocating Hindus/Indian culture. I wrongly mis-took you as two warring groups in advocating mode.
        Whereas you are all sincere and sensitive intelectuals.
        The reason for mis-quoting is deep in our psyche; becuase since our childhood, in our society, there is vitiated atmoshphere about Bible. It is generally taken as religious book of the Britishers the Gora-Raj walas. Also to a common Indian The Bible seems to be a religious book of the Westerner; because it is preached, presented and prayed like theydo in the west.
        Please don’t label we the Hindus as Hypocrits, as many of us love to wear westerner costumes, food, cutlarry, architecture, but go to our own cultural architecture for Mandir and cultural roots to celebrate festivals do puja; becuase we are rooted in a dharmik civilization having two facets one for samaj and the other for spirit. We do love western way of life and its many secular and religious cultures for our samajik dharma only, but for our spiritual dharma we cannot depart from our mother culture. And our mother culture is not anti to Christ. He is Taranishwar Ji to our mother culture. And we did not find any reference in Bible against any culture.
        By misquoting you as an advocate of westerner culture I have committed a crime/pap.
        I go for prayashchit; becuase I was completely wrong and prejudiced and in future i would learn and train my mind and senses that there are Indians follower of Christ, who are not Britishers or some one from the west but are Indians putting into practice what Christ promised, shown, said and did while remaining rooted in either Indian/Hindu culture or new immerging Global-culture, like Ajay Ji, a well informed reformer, patriot and yodha in action, laced with the eternal love of his guru the Christ/Taranaishwar Ji.

        with deep Regards

        Sarvey Bhawantu Sukhinah

        Prem aur shanti

        pkaryan

  17. Dear PK Aryan sahab,

    Bahuth bahuth dhanyawaad and shukriya for clarifying and thank you for your apologies, a bit long-winded and flattering, but nevertheless thank you!

    Let’s get back to the discussion: my point is our Indian culture in the 20th/21st century is not really helping us solve the majority of the problems that are very much exclusive to Indian society. Only Indians have to find the solutions by introspection as well as by open dialogue whilst at the same time be open to be challenged and be open to change. The UN cannot come and help us, the US cannot come and help us, let alone the Chinese or the Japanese or the Koreans. Many other nations/nationalities do not even have the time to turn their heads towards India though they might care to if there’s a business deal that benefits them.

    So, what I’m trying to get us all to see and understand is that there are some serious discrepancies in our fundamentals. A culture is what makes a nation and its people. A house that is divided cannot stand when an enemy attacks the house from the outside – this is Christ’s saying in the Holy Bible – and this has been proved in our own history which was how the British were able to establish an empire in India in the first place.

    I’ll now address the general Indian perception as far as the Holy Bible(HB) is concerned. There are altogether 66 books in the HB of which only two were written by a non-Jew which means the remaining 64 had Jewish authors. It doesn’t take a genius to tell us that the Jews are Asians. Jesus Christ (Yesu Masih) was born a Jew, which makes Him Asian. Though from the 16th century onwards Western Europeans brought the Gospel, there are indelible records and powerful testimonies to the presence of the influence of Jesus Christ’s teachings on Indian culture and history. Either way the Holy Bible is an Asian book, Jews are Asians and Jesus Christ was born Asian.

    I hope the above makes some important points very crystal clear to you by throwing light on some of the most important truths of history that are necessary for our discussion. There’s a general tendency amongst recent Indians to vouch for myths more than to accept real and established truth.

    Heartfelt thank you and kindest regards,
    “You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.” – Jesus Christ.
    “Aur Sathya ko jaan loge| Aur Sathya tumhe mukth karega|” – Yesu Masih recorded in Yohan 8:32.

  18. Ajay Ji

    Namaskar!

    It seems that you claim to be an asthavaan in Sadguru Yeshu Ji Maharaj, but in the same breath you write: ” a bit long-winded and flattering, but nevertheless thank you!”:”– this is Christ’s saying in the Holy Bible –”. Is it the type of saying and language used by Jesus Ji and you are supposed to write in case you claime to be a follower of Yeshu Ji Maharaj/Jesus Ji?

    Please! don’t take it otherwise, as all the sacred books of this world are not monopoly of any individual and at the same time cannot be abused to pass judgments upon failure of people groups accusing their culture and traditions. Atmik journey is aloof to culture and petty issues. Every human being is invited to moksha-path through truth, non-violence and agape-Love.
    Our Hindu scriptures are pointing towards OM (sabad) the redeemer and creator of universe.
    Jews National pride and geneologies has no relevance with atmik yatra of Indians. We have our own rich culture, ancient scriptures and civilisation equivalewnt to Old testament, but pointing towards the same truth contained in New testament.
    Let us trace some meeting point to form a Globe of Love and Peace.
    Hindus are Hindus and westerns are westerns, but they are trying to impose their culture on Hindus, finding critical, superstitious and contradictory material from Hindu scriptures. Every Hindu believe that their is lies lot of irrelevent material in old-sacred scriptures, but old testament is not devoid of the same. at many points Maharishis of new testament have rejected and reversed the verses of old testament, Hindus are also learning the same rather striving very hard, unfortunately at social reform level, but now picking up untoed strands at Atmik level as well.
    May God Almighty leads us in New Year and decade with to new level of understanding but judging.

    • Hi there Pawan Kumar Aryan ji,

      Thank you. I wish you the best in the New Year – that you may find favour with God and man in everything you do!

      On a different note: I’d like to just indicate, you may want to research this later, the idea of worshipping a Creator-God was not vogue in India until Christianity came to India in the 1st century. Buddhism was widespread and was an agnostic religion along with Jainism. Vedic religion was a system of sacrificial rites and rituals to anthropomorphic forces of nature.

      All the best and kind regards,
      Ajay